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	<title>Comments on: God and the Markets: Faith vs. Proof</title>
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	<description>thoughts, lessons, observations, and experiences from a life&#039;s journey</description>
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		<title>By: legacy daily</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4983</link>
		<dc:creator>legacy daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4983</guid>
		<description>Gabbie: Welcome to my little corner. You say you would much rather believe that your future is made up of the choices you make. Even in this wonderful country of freedom of choice, I sense the choices made by others affect our lives more significantly than our own choices. If I am a flower, I may believe that I am in charge of my own destiny ignoring the power of the wind, the sun, the water, the nutrients, and the rest of my ecosystem. You comment about living a few weeks has left me quite puzzled. I hope you said that to make a point rather than to describe your situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gabbie: Welcome to my little corner. You say you would much rather believe that your future is made up of the choices you make. Even in this wonderful country of freedom of choice, I sense the choices made by others affect our lives more significantly than our own choices. If I am a flower, I may believe that I am in charge of my own destiny ignoring the power of the wind, the sun, the water, the nutrients, and the rest of my ecosystem. You comment about living a few weeks has left me quite puzzled. I hope you said that to make a point rather than to describe your situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabbie</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4978</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4978</guid>
		<description>I do think that your passion for your relgion is beautiful, but i like to believe that if G-d is realy amongst us, he would consider us as the miracles. And i would much rather believe that my future is made up of the choices I make, and not by G-d. I dont want to get the short straw and only live for a few weeks because of a disease i have been born with. But dont worry, G-d loves me, because G-d created me, even though my brother gets to live till his 80 and i live for a few weeks. 
And yes i agree,we probably wont ever get to find out if G-D created us, or the big bang or what not. We believe in different faiths, people, Gods, choices, paths or just believe to make us think &quot;hey, everything is going to be ok&quot; believing in G-d gives us reassurance that someone is watching out for me, and is my lifes witness.
why are we saying god like g-d? lol

gabbie x</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think that your passion for your relgion is beautiful, but i like to believe that if G-d is realy amongst us, he would consider us as the miracles. And i would much rather believe that my future is made up of the choices I make, and not by G-d. I dont want to get the short straw and only live for a few weeks because of a disease i have been born with. But dont worry, G-d loves me, because G-d created me, even though my brother gets to live till his 80 and i live for a few weeks.<br />
And yes i agree,we probably wont ever get to find out if G-D created us, or the big bang or what not. We believe in different faiths, people, Gods, choices, paths or just believe to make us think &#8220;hey, everything is going to be ok&#8221; believing in G-d gives us reassurance that someone is watching out for me, and is my lifes witness.<br />
why are we saying god like g-d? lol</p>
<p>gabbie x</p>
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		<title>By: Don Chu</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4971</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 19:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4971</guid>
		<description>What George said, 
&quot;I think we are pure energy, in various degrees of condensation, imbued ultimately with enormous sentient intelligence&quot; 
and his description of the levels of vibration/frequencies and the entropy-like flow of natural processes are very sensitively expressed. 

Prompts a pointing to this little tale (Asimov&#039;s scientific perspective merging with mysticism recalls George&#039;s words above):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_Do_More_Than_See

Don</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What George said,<br />
&#8220;I think we are pure energy, in various degrees of condensation, imbued ultimately with enormous sentient intelligence&#8221;<br />
and his description of the levels of vibration/frequencies and the entropy-like flow of natural processes are very sensitively expressed. </p>
<p>Prompts a pointing to this little tale (Asimov&#8217;s scientific perspective merging with mysticism recalls George&#8217;s words above):<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_Do_More_Than_See" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyes_Do_More_Than_See</a></p>
<p>Don</p>
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		<title>By: George Parkanyi</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4959</link>
		<dc:creator>George Parkanyi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4959</guid>
		<description>LD,

I think it is less about beliefs than it is about choices.  We don&#039;t always choose according to our beliefs, and sometimes our beliefs change.  But to address your question, I think the answer is &quot;both&quot;.  I think our experiences hone our beliefs, and our beliefs influence our choices and ultimately our experiences.  I know this is circular, but then that&#039;s how I think the universe operates.

Above I laid out what I believe, and it is so far consistent with my life experiences.  Should something happen to change that, then I may modify my beliefs. (or go into denial).  :)

And, to my detriment, I certainly don&#039;t always act according to my beliefs.  (Counter-productive habits I would think are the most difficult challenges to overcome in daily life, at least in my own experience.)

By vibrations I meant frequncy.  In a general sense, Buddhists and Hindus for example believe that higher consciousness is a form of higher frequency energy (e.g. light or perhaps some other subtle form of wave-like energy), and lower frequency energy essentially condenses into the material world and matter (which Einstein himself determined is just another form of energy).  This is where I find there is an interesting cross-over between physics and mysticism.

How I apply it to trading is that first and foremost I take my cues from nature - it is definitely cyclical and regenerative.  Therefore so must be human behaviour.  Can you predict when and where particular cycles will occur, and their magnitude?  Very difficult.  (Can you predict when and where a particle will be?  According to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, also very difficult) But can you predict THAT cycles will occur? (Hint: Look at any stock chart, and, perhaps dust off a Statistical Mechanics textbook and know that you can statistically know where a particle will be at some point in the future.)  So I focus on trying to passively take advantage of cyclicality in the markets in a statistical way, without trying to predict specific moves.  If I can capture enough cycle-bits within a reasonable time frame to effect a profitable outcome, then I have succeeded (in the market anyway).  And ... so far it&#039;s not working.  :)

Cheers,
George</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD,</p>
<p>I think it is less about beliefs than it is about choices.  We don&#8217;t always choose according to our beliefs, and sometimes our beliefs change.  But to address your question, I think the answer is &#8220;both&#8221;.  I think our experiences hone our beliefs, and our beliefs influence our choices and ultimately our experiences.  I know this is circular, but then that&#8217;s how I think the universe operates.</p>
<p>Above I laid out what I believe, and it is so far consistent with my life experiences.  Should something happen to change that, then I may modify my beliefs. (or go into denial).  <img src='http://legacydaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And, to my detriment, I certainly don&#8217;t always act according to my beliefs.  (Counter-productive habits I would think are the most difficult challenges to overcome in daily life, at least in my own experience.)</p>
<p>By vibrations I meant frequncy.  In a general sense, Buddhists and Hindus for example believe that higher consciousness is a form of higher frequency energy (e.g. light or perhaps some other subtle form of wave-like energy), and lower frequency energy essentially condenses into the material world and matter (which Einstein himself determined is just another form of energy).  This is where I find there is an interesting cross-over between physics and mysticism.</p>
<p>How I apply it to trading is that first and foremost I take my cues from nature &#8211; it is definitely cyclical and regenerative.  Therefore so must be human behaviour.  Can you predict when and where particular cycles will occur, and their magnitude?  Very difficult.  (Can you predict when and where a particle will be?  According to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, also very difficult) But can you predict THAT cycles will occur? (Hint: Look at any stock chart, and, perhaps dust off a Statistical Mechanics textbook and know that you can statistically know where a particle will be at some point in the future.)  So I focus on trying to passively take advantage of cyclicality in the markets in a statistical way, without trying to predict specific moves.  If I can capture enough cycle-bits within a reasonable time frame to effect a profitable outcome, then I have succeeded (in the market anyway).  And &#8230; so far it&#8217;s not working.  <img src='http://legacydaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
George</p>
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		<title>By: legacy daily</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4958</link>
		<dc:creator>legacy daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4958</guid>
		<description>George: Thank you for the comment. I didn&#039;t fully understand the concept of &quot;vibrations&quot;. Another question is around how beliefs affect us. Is our view of the world, our experiences, and our life the result of our beliefs or are our beliefs the result of what we have experienced, how we view the world, and our life in general, or is it both just at different times in life? Same question IMHO also applies to markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George: Thank you for the comment. I didn&#8217;t fully understand the concept of &#8220;vibrations&#8221;. Another question is around how beliefs affect us. Is our view of the world, our experiences, and our life the result of our beliefs or are our beliefs the result of what we have experienced, how we view the world, and our life in general, or is it both just at different times in life? Same question IMHO also applies to markets.</p>
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		<title>By: George Parkanyi</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4957</link>
		<dc:creator>George Parkanyi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4957</guid>
		<description>Well LD, for better or worse, my beliefs are very simple, and aligned with the spiritual work of Paramahansa Yogananda and more so the Eastern faiths, though I think there is commonality and importance in the core messages of all the great faiths that have endured over time (i.e. they all matter and are not that dissimilar - I think we just end up in conflict over the interpretations).

I believe we are part of a higher consciousness that wishes to experience itself, and has created the context to do so with the material world (universe).  I don&#039;t how, or why.  But I think we are here to experience our way through some kind of great journey, and how we relate to each other as pieces of this great consciousness is somehow important.  The material world is also a manisfestation of this consciousness, a slowing down of it&#039;s vibration, as it were.  But we are still connected to and through it.

Shakespeare to me made a very spiritual statement when he said &quot;The world is a stage&quot;.  That&#039;s how I see it as well, but I don&#039;t believe there is a fixed script.  Our choices are the key to how we navigate and experience our individual journeys, and collecively they produce the &quot;performance&quot; that plays out on the stage. 

When I look at things this way, the horrors and injustice out there make much more sense.  No matter what our circumstance and the terrible price, it is only a role, and it is an intended part of the experience. What we &quot;do&quot; in this world adds to the sum of what everyone else &quot;does&quot;, and we each participate, influencing and being influenced by, directly or indirectly, everyone else&#039;s experience.

And because the universe is so huge, I think that it is reasonable to extrapolate that there is other intelligent life out there in greater and lesser degrees of self-awareness and &quot;advancement&quot; than we here on earth - our particular little theatre. 

In the physical sense, I think we are pure energy, in various degrees of condensation, imbued ultimately with enormous sentient intelligence.  At the &quot;lower&quot; levels of vibration we can&#039;t access all of that intelligence, but now and then with methods such as meditation we can tune in.  Some people may be wired a little differently and can perhaps resonate with it by other means.  As energy, and as physics has shown, I also believe that we can neither be created or destroyed, and that our consciousness at its higher levels retains the memory of its experiences (i.e. life after death).  A good analogy of how we are inter-related would be the ocean.  If consciousness were water for example, we may evaporate off and end up in the clouds, a lake or a river, or perhaps in an aquifer or icepack somewhere, but ultimately, somehow we flow back to the ocean.  And I think we may be doing this many many times in a great cycle (re-incarnation).

Therefore, I further believe there is no downside to life, and no need to fear death.  Also, being altruistic and thinking beyond oneself makes sense, because then you are engaging the greater part of more of you, and expanding your experience.  Excessive focus on oneself limits that scope and opportunity for expansiveness. This is one of the challenges I think we have to overcome in the journey. That&#039;s why I think we try to differentiate and organize ourselves in terms of moral principles such as &quot;good&quot; and &quot;evil&quot;.  We instinctively know at some level that helping others helps (expands)us, and hurting others ultimately hurts us (diminishes or holds us back), because we are part of the same thing.  But within these dualities, there are infinite shades of experience, and everything is relative to something else.  (That&#039;s why moral absolutes can eventually be contradicted, and situations found where they no longer apply or actually can become their opposite.)

Well there you have it.  The world according to George. Can I empirically prove any of this?  No.  But it jives with my own experiences, and it jives with what I know of the physical world through sciences like physics. And now you know - I&#039;m a nut-bar.   :)

Cheers,
George</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well LD, for better or worse, my beliefs are very simple, and aligned with the spiritual work of Paramahansa Yogananda and more so the Eastern faiths, though I think there is commonality and importance in the core messages of all the great faiths that have endured over time (i.e. they all matter and are not that dissimilar &#8211; I think we just end up in conflict over the interpretations).</p>
<p>I believe we are part of a higher consciousness that wishes to experience itself, and has created the context to do so with the material world (universe).  I don&#8217;t how, or why.  But I think we are here to experience our way through some kind of great journey, and how we relate to each other as pieces of this great consciousness is somehow important.  The material world is also a manisfestation of this consciousness, a slowing down of it&#8217;s vibration, as it were.  But we are still connected to and through it.</p>
<p>Shakespeare to me made a very spiritual statement when he said &#8220;The world is a stage&#8221;.  That&#8217;s how I see it as well, but I don&#8217;t believe there is a fixed script.  Our choices are the key to how we navigate and experience our individual journeys, and collecively they produce the &#8220;performance&#8221; that plays out on the stage. </p>
<p>When I look at things this way, the horrors and injustice out there make much more sense.  No matter what our circumstance and the terrible price, it is only a role, and it is an intended part of the experience. What we &#8220;do&#8221; in this world adds to the sum of what everyone else &#8220;does&#8221;, and we each participate, influencing and being influenced by, directly or indirectly, everyone else&#8217;s experience.</p>
<p>And because the universe is so huge, I think that it is reasonable to extrapolate that there is other intelligent life out there in greater and lesser degrees of self-awareness and &#8220;advancement&#8221; than we here on earth &#8211; our particular little theatre. </p>
<p>In the physical sense, I think we are pure energy, in various degrees of condensation, imbued ultimately with enormous sentient intelligence.  At the &#8220;lower&#8221; levels of vibration we can&#8217;t access all of that intelligence, but now and then with methods such as meditation we can tune in.  Some people may be wired a little differently and can perhaps resonate with it by other means.  As energy, and as physics has shown, I also believe that we can neither be created or destroyed, and that our consciousness at its higher levels retains the memory of its experiences (i.e. life after death).  A good analogy of how we are inter-related would be the ocean.  If consciousness were water for example, we may evaporate off and end up in the clouds, a lake or a river, or perhaps in an aquifer or icepack somewhere, but ultimately, somehow we flow back to the ocean.  And I think we may be doing this many many times in a great cycle (re-incarnation).</p>
<p>Therefore, I further believe there is no downside to life, and no need to fear death.  Also, being altruistic and thinking beyond oneself makes sense, because then you are engaging the greater part of more of you, and expanding your experience.  Excessive focus on oneself limits that scope and opportunity for expansiveness. This is one of the challenges I think we have to overcome in the journey. That&#8217;s why I think we try to differentiate and organize ourselves in terms of moral principles such as &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;evil&#8221;.  We instinctively know at some level that helping others helps (expands)us, and hurting others ultimately hurts us (diminishes or holds us back), because we are part of the same thing.  But within these dualities, there are infinite shades of experience, and everything is relative to something else.  (That&#8217;s why moral absolutes can eventually be contradicted, and situations found where they no longer apply or actually can become their opposite.)</p>
<p>Well there you have it.  The world according to George. Can I empirically prove any of this?  No.  But it jives with my own experiences, and it jives with what I know of the physical world through sciences like physics. And now you know &#8211; I&#8217;m a nut-bar.   <img src='http://legacydaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
George</p>
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		<title>By: legacy daily</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4850</link>
		<dc:creator>legacy daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4850</guid>
		<description>Don - The differences here are not in the context of zero-sum, but rather when their understanding enriches all. The latter type of diversity of thought and experiences is very positive and must be celebrated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don &#8211; The differences here are not in the context of zero-sum, but rather when their understanding enriches all. The latter type of diversity of thought and experiences is very positive and must be celebrated.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Chu</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4849</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4849</guid>
		<description>Well said, legacy. 
You are in good company with your views above on questioning the need for proof-beyond-all-doubt in underscoring one&#039;s faith. Giants of thought --from antiquity to the modern binary world-- who have pondered and pushed the boundaries of thinking (some especially on this very issue), have come away with very much the same conclusion. 

&quot;Win&quot;-ning systems: be it for the markets, the personal &#039;abundant&#039; life, or geo-political exhortations, have run the gamut for a long time; from the dizzying heights of the Tower of Babel to unleashing the power within of Anthony Robbins...
Like yourself, I am somewhat of a skeptic here. 

Don

[Your comments with MDan above on &#039;differences&#039;, and what you said on &#039;comparison&#039; elsewhere, chime with some other thoughts I&#039;ve been having...
&#039;Differences&#039; are indeed the touchstone (assay) upon which Man relate with one another; and seems to hold especially true in some of his most important areas of relations: communication and markets.

Let me dust off my dusty thoughts from the draft folder and see if I cant put it together.
:)
]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, legacy.<br />
You are in good company with your views above on questioning the need for proof-beyond-all-doubt in underscoring one&#8217;s faith. Giants of thought &#8211;from antiquity to the modern binary world&#8211; who have pondered and pushed the boundaries of thinking (some especially on this very issue), have come away with very much the same conclusion. </p>
<p>&#8220;Win&#8221;-ning systems: be it for the markets, the personal &#8216;abundant&#8217; life, or geo-political exhortations, have run the gamut for a long time; from the dizzying heights of the Tower of Babel to unleashing the power within of Anthony Robbins&#8230;<br />
Like yourself, I am somewhat of a skeptic here. </p>
<p>Don</p>
<p>[Your comments with MDan above on 'differences', and what you said on 'comparison' elsewhere, chime with some other thoughts I've been having...<br />
'Differences' are indeed the touchstone (assay) upon which Man relate with one another; and seems to hold especially true in some of his most important areas of relations: communication and markets.</p>
<p>Let me dust off my dusty thoughts from the draft folder and see if I cant put it together.<br />
 <img src='http://legacydaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
]</p>
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		<title>By: MDan</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4843</link>
		<dc:creator>MDan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4843</guid>
		<description>LD, that&#039;s funny, it seems I am an INTJ as well :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LD, that&#8217;s funny, it seems I am an INTJ as well <img src='http://legacydaily.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: jeff watson</title>
		<link>http://legacydaily.com/2009/07/god-and-the-markets-faith-vs-proof/#comment-4842</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://legacydaily.com/?p=271#comment-4842</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve noticed an increase in the mention of a higher being on speculation web sites, and although this is anecdotal, I just don&#039;t have time to quantify it right now.  I wonder if there is an indicator here?

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve noticed an increase in the mention of a higher being on speculation web sites, and although this is anecdotal, I just don&#8217;t have time to quantify it right now.  I wonder if there is an indicator here?</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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